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  #1  
Old 28-06-2003, 10:02
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Christians and Christianity Today

hey everyone i am new to this forum.I am a catholic and i would like to say that Christians(including catholics) today do not practice the form of christianity preached by Jesus

Christians blindly believe and follow what the church says and dont even bother lookin up the Bible to see if what u believe is in the Bible at all.

The festivals of Christmas and easter that are supossedly christian festivals are not mentioned in the Bible at all. and above all jesus himself never celebrated his birthday and where in the Bible does it say the he was born on December 25th.

easter is also not mentioned in the Bible and the apostles never celebrated easter either. these festivals have pagan conotations.

whereas we never celebrate festivals mentioned in the Bible, like Passover, Feast of Unlevened Bread etc.. coz the church says they are Jewish festivals and the Law of Moses they say are jewish laws. weren't these laws given to Moses by God.

we should be following all the laws and the commandments that were given to Moses coz they were given to him by God and are to be kept by all people forever.

About the trinity, i really do not believe there are three people in one. there is one and Only one God who must be worshipped in spirit, Jesus was sent by him as a messenger and a prophet. jesus cannot be God coz he himself said that the Father is Greater then I, that in itself should be proof enough for anyone.

Christians pray to statues of mother mary and the crucifix this is not the right thing to do coz it is idolatry. we are supposed to pray to The One and Only Almighty God who is Unseen, not to some cross or some statue which humans have made.

most of u agree that the new testament has been tampered with, but the original message still remains intact if u read properly and understand its meaning for what it is. Christians should read the Old Testament coz it is just as important and follow it.

why do most christians ignore most of the Bible, but just take certain phrases like "the Father and i are One" and use that to prove that jesus is God , when there are clearly many others that prove that Jesus is not God.

even though such phrases that say the jesus is god could have been added or misinterpreted there are numerous others that prove otherwise. Somehow the Original message of God has remained intact but it is for us to see that and understand it. The truth exists in the Bible, but most christians have just taken the word of the church and just believe blindly, prove to yourselves what u are actually believeing is true or not.

Peace, hope all christians see the truth and believe in the true God, the God of the Old Testament.
  #2  
Old 28-06-2003, 12:50
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Dear True Faith

welcome to IWC....

I agree with all what you said... yet I am not christian to reply to you. One thing I can say.. why do people "pick and choose" it is because.... people do not want to be proven wrong and want to prove they are correct.

enjoy your stay and we look forward for you to ask questions about Islam and learn with us what islam really is so that everyone has clear vision of the other faith

best of regard and again welcome to IWC
  #3  
Old 29-06-2003, 05:33
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Thanks Rasha, thats right people don't wanna be proven wrong but i think the christians today just don't wanna open their minds and hearts to listen to the truth, they just wanna follow blindly what has been taught by their parents and the church and don't question what they are doin? it may take quite some time for christians to realise the truth but God willing some they they will.

rasha i do have questions about islam, although i know quite a bit about islam some things baffle me. i will ask u a bit later.

rasha i dont mean to be rude but is rasha a girl or guys name?
  #4  
Old 29-06-2003, 07:54
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Welcome truefaith, im kinda new here too but so far i like it here and i hope you do too. I was a catholic until around 5 years ago, but like yourself didnt agree with many many things about the religion. I sincerely tried as i knew there has to be a God, i went to church every sunday and read up upon it. But it just got more and more confusing. So i got angry and tried to force myself to believe that there was no God, even started with witchcraft, can you believe!! Gave up on hope although deep inside i couldnt shake out the belief that there was a God. Then. all praise be to God, islam found me!! Yes thats right! i didnt go out in search for another religion like many do, i gave up. Then i made a new friend who was a muslim- I didnt even let him talk to me about it but he was so confident in his religion being the right one so i asked him a few questions- the ones that confuse me before and whadaya know, he had the answers. So i submitted to the One true God who has no partners or sons or mothers.

There were a few things that baffled me to at the begining but with the right amount of research all is clear now Alhamdulillah.

I wish you all the best.
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Old 29-06-2003, 12:31
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True Faith...

you are welcome to ask us ALL any questions any time inshaAllah we all will be happy to help out. My name (Rasha) is a female name.

Looking forward to your participation at IWC.
  #6  
Old 03-07-2003, 11:07
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Thanks for the welcome Rasha.

hey muslimah99, i live in australia too!! whats your nationality? what did your parents have to say when u converted to islam? coz i know catholics are very devout like my parents.
about catholicism i always had questions right from the time i was around 12 yrs old. i always felt there was something wrong about Christmas and easter but never stopped believing in God. i always believed in One True God whom no one has seen and i believe Jesus was His messenger, an important messenger.

I don't see anything wrong with Christianity, of course people have tampered with the New testament but if u get rid of those contradictions u can see the real christianity. It is Christians who don't follow what is in the Bible but instead follow human traditions instead of the Word of God and they do what they think is right not the Will of God.

Similarly i don't see anything wrong with Islam, but u will have to agree that there are some Muslims who do give Islam a bad name.

All i believe is that whether we are Christians, Muslims or Jews if we do the will of God and keep all his teachings and laws, and believe in his Prophets and in Judgement Day then we are doing the right thing.

Peace to all
  #7  
Old 03-07-2003, 12:45
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Hi TrueFaith !

You said : "Similarly i don't see anything wrong with Islam, but u will have to agree that there are some Muslims who do give Islam a bad name."

OK, here is the issue : You're judging Islam by the actions of Muslims, who are going against the teachings of Islam (or so i believe you're doing?). I am sure you can see that this is rather illogical <smiles>. I mean, when it is known that such people are going against the teachings of Islam, then i wonder how can one blame Islam?

For example, in Islam, consumption of alcohol is clearly prohibited. However, there are Muslims who consume alcohol. Indeed, this is incorrect behaviour, but, can one blame Islam for it?

Similarly, recently, we had that Catholic Church sex scandal. Now, how would you feel if someone said that Catholicism is to blame for the wrong actions of those Catholic priests, who committed those ugly crimes?

I am pretty sure that Catholicism does not allow paedophilia, but here we had Catholic PRIESTS engaging in such evil activities.

So i hope every single person in this world remembers, if there are Muslims who do wrong things, then never forget, that there are Christians who do wrong things, and there are Hindus who do wrong things, and Buddhists who do wrong things, and atheists who do wrong things, etc.

Before one points a finger at someone else, one should look at oneself. People who live in glass houses should refrain from throwing stones at others, and that is better for them.

Bye,
Asif.
  #8  
Old 03-07-2003, 13:31
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Hi Asif,

U got me all wrong, i wasn't judging islam or muslims. i was trying to make a point, that there is nothing wrong with Christianity or Islam or Judaism but it is the people who do wrong things and the religion gets blamed.

Islam is a divine religion just like Christianity and Judaism.

i was talkin about the people of our faiths. i myself agree that majority of Christians today do not do what God commands us to.

I have a lot of muslim friends, infact my best friend is a muslim so i have nothing against Islam or muslims.

Sorry if i offended you, i should have phrased my sentence properly.

Peace to all.
  #9  
Old 03-07-2003, 15:00
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Hi TrueFaith !

You do not have to apologize. I guess the fault is mine, since i misunderstood you, and so i apologize.

Bye,
Asif.
  #10  
Old 03-07-2003, 15:19
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Thats cool Asif!!!

Peace be with you.
  #11  
Old 04-07-2003, 09:18
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Quote:
Originally posted by TrueFaith
Thanks for the welcome Rasha.

hey muslimah99, i live in australia too!! whats your nationality? what did your parents have to say when u converted to islam? coz i know catholics are very devout like my parents.
about catholicism i always had questions right from the time i was around 12 yrs old. i always felt there was something wrong about Christmas and easter but never stopped believing in God. i always believed in One True God whom no one has seen and i believe Jesus was His messenger, an important messenger.
I don't see anything wrong with Christianity, of course people have tampered with the New testament but if u get rid of those contradictions u can see the real christianity. It is Christians who don't follow what is in the Bible but instead follow human traditions instead of the Word of God and they do what they think is right not the Will of God.
Similarly i don't see anything wrong with Islam, but u will have to agree that there are some Muslims who do give Islam a bad name.
All i believe is that whether we are Christians, Muslims or Jews if we do the will of God and keep all his teachings and laws, and believe in his Prophets and in Judgement Day then we are doing the right thing.
Peace to all
Hi Truefaith, where abouts in Australia are you. I from Melbourne and im Mauritian-ever heard of it!
Anyway when my parents found out i reverted they flipped, it took a couple of months for them to adjust, however when i started to wear hijab it started all over again. But now they're ok. But if you know anything about Mauritians, you realise that many of them believe in anything that moves , for example saints, a dead person they claim was holy (although i dont think he was made saint) and they pray to him and once a year they walk fromtheir homes to him (actually its an oversize statue of him) where they pray, rub their hankies on the statue and anything else such as candles and flowers and crosses and keep it in their homes because it is now blessed!??.
My mum collects "good luck" charms from all religions and puts it in her house for...good luck!?? So already you can see that they arent true anything. But they do go to church and do the communion, confirmation etc.

I, too, had doubts since primary school. I couldnt understand the concept of trinity and it seems neither did my teacher as she couldnt answer the questions.

Also when i first had interest in islam, i asked " can't i stay a catholic yet believe in One God and that Jesus and Muhammed are His messengers" And the reply was "But that is Islam". So my question to you is Do you believe in Muhammed(pbuh)? If not why not? I mean you seem like and intelligent person who can think for yourself, what is the reason why you dont believe inthe prophet Muhammed? If i sent you a letter in which is said to you that i was getting married and got a new job and six months later i sent you a letter saying that i got divorced and lost my job, which letter would you accept and reply to? Obviously the second one, so God has sent you another revelation why cant you accept it?

And finally yes many muslims give islam a bad name as do christians to christianity and jews to judaism. Like Asif said you cant judge islam by the actions of another, as everyone has a choice as to what he wants to do but he will be judged as what he did.
Sorry for the length and take care
  #12  
Old 05-07-2003, 08:30
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Hi Muslimah99!!

i live in Sydney and i am Spanish. Nah i don't know much about Mauritus, all i know is what i saw on the Great Outdoors, its an island right ? and the people are of indian and african descent?

Anywayz, i think u misunderstood me just like Asif, i did not say anything agianst Islam, please read my reply to Asif.


muslimah i never said Muhammad was not a Prophet. Let me say this to u, what if a person believes in the Oneness of God, follows all the Laws and Commandments of God, believes in all the Prophets but still calls himself a Christian or Jew, would that be wrong.

What about people who are muslims but do not do what God commands. Please do not misunderstand what i am saying.

What does it matter if we call ourselves Christians, Muslims or Jews so long as we uphold the Laws of God and worship only him in spirit and truth, isn't that whats important.

Its like catholics, who worship images of supposedly Jesus, statues of Mary and various saints even though idolatry is strictly forbidden in the Bible, but yet they call them selves Christians but do not do what Jesus christ truly preached and they call them selves followers of Christ.

So does it really matter if someone is a muslim, jew or christian if we all do what God commands i hope u see what i am getting at. It is for God to judge us, He knows who the true believers, no matter what they call themselves.

muslimah, i hope u understand what i am saying,

Take Care and Peace be with you
  #13  
Old 06-07-2003, 15:11
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Hi Truefaith,
firstly no, mauritians are NOT of Indian descent at all, they are of African descent however and a mixture of french.

I do understand what your getting at, believe me i've been there. But my concern is, if you do believe in the prophet then are you reading the quran and abiding by it and are you praying 5 times a day. Because thats what God has commanded in His last revelation. In order to follow Gods last revelation you need to follow and obey Muhammed(pbuh). Being a muslim means to surrender. This is my question, this is what i was trying to find out by my post.
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Old 10-07-2003, 06:34
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Sorry Muslimah i didn't know that, i just assumed since i saw that outdoors show and coz mauritius is in the indian ocean.

Alrite now back to what we were discussing, firstly although i was born catholic i consider myself to be a Christian, who believes in the One Supreme God and all His Prophets and in Judgement Day.
I started following the Old Testament some five years back and have kept all the dietary laws and other laws.

Now about praying five times a day, well i'll be honest i do not pray five times a day, do u mean to tell me that all muslims pray five times a day and just by doing that they are muslims. i know all muslims do not pray 5 times a day.

Muslimah, i believe that Muhammad was a Prophet and i also believe the Koran to be the word of God, my question to you is so do muslims but how many of them actually abide by it, so if i were muslim i may still not pray five times a day, so how is that any different to a person who has the same belief as muslims but yet does not pray 5 times a day.

u get what i am saying, u were a christian before so u know what i am saying.

hope to talk to u more about this and other religious topics.

Take care

Peace
  #15  
Old 10-07-2003, 08:38
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Quote:
Originally posted by TrueFaith
Now about praying five times a day, well i'll be honest i do not pray five times a day, do u mean to tell me that all muslims pray five times a day and just by doing that they are muslims. i know all muslims do not pray 5 times a day.
Peace
Hi Truefaith,
Well to be quite honest with you, the ppl who dont pray 5 times a day are not really muslims, as the prophet (pbuh) has said:
“All that stands between a man and shirk and kufr is his giving up prayer.” And he also said:

“The covenant that separates us from them is salaah, and whoever gives up prayer is a kaafir.”

and

"Then there has succeeded them a posterity who have neglected and lost the prayers, and followed their lusts; thus, they will face devastation (on the Day of Judgment, i.e., he will face Hell)." Surat Maryam 19:59.

And as you may know, Islam has 5 pillars
1] to believe that there is no God but the One God
2] 5 daily prayers
3] Fasting the month of ramadan
4] Giving charity
5] performing the hajj for those who can afford.

Now thses are the requirements that God and his prophet have made. Leave one out and you are not in the fold of islam. And i know you are not claiming to be muslim but the ppl who are claiming to be muslim but are not praying - are indeed mistaken.

Quote:
my question to you is so do muslims but how many of them actually abide by it, so if i were muslim i may still not pray five times a day, so how is that any different to a person who has the same belief as muslims but yet does not pray 5 times a day.
I think i covered this question above but as you can see, there is no different b/w a "muslim" who doesnt pray and one who isn't muslim but have the ame beliefs. They are both still disbelievers according to the Quran and sunnah.

Just a last few words (sorry i'm going on and on...) although someone is born muslim doesnt mean that he truly is a muslim. You have many so called muslims and muslims by name. What makes a true muslim is one who obeys God and His prophet Muhammed, and submits to the will of God. Yes everyone is a sinner, but you can be a muslim who sins but you cant be a muslim without the 5 pillars. And the only thing that elevates any true muslim whether born or revert, from another is his good deeds
hope to hear your thoughts on this soon.
Peace be with you and take care
 


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