Back to your site

PORTAL | REGISTER | PDA | QUR'AN SEARCH | WHAT'S ISLAM? | TELL A FRIEND | RULES


Information Center on myIWC Forums
Go Back   myIWC Forums > ISLAMIC-NATURE > Comparative Religion
User Name
Password


 
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14-08-2001, 12:40
Lulua Lulua is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,709
Lulua is on a distinguished road
Addressing some Questions for Christians

Bism Allah Alrahman Alrahim


I have been reading in the messages posted throughout this forum, and have noticed some questions put forth to the Christians, which no one has even attempted at answering. I have therefore taken it upon myself to attempt to answer some of those questions, as well as to use them as a springboard for pointing out some of the basic reasons and examples as to Islam’s claims that the current Christian bible is independable as a source of inspiration and guidance. This is based on the obvious many and various contradictions WITHIN the Bible itself, and really has nothing to do with anything that Islam or the Quran or Muslims have to say about Christianity. It is the Christian’s own Bible which points out the weak points and questionable points in their accepted and retained religion.

About things in reference to men and women in particular: Women in the Christian churches are now given to taking positions of authority within the church, some becoming ministers, even deacons, and other positions of instruction and authority. This is something that has been more or less widely accepted within a majority of the Christian communities and churches. As well, although granted, you will not see most Christian men wearing clothing of women, but it is quite easy to see Christian women wearing the clothing of men, whether it be the style of clothing (i.e. pants, pant suits, etc.) or even the actual clothing (many women like to and do actually wear men’s jeans, shirts and t-shirts). As well, you will notice that Christian women do not cover there heads, or make any attempt at covering them even in the Church, or during any kind of religious ceremony.

I have noticed, also, in the messages previously posted, and question put forth in general to the Christians, as to whether or not they take for seriousness and instruction and guidance the WHOLE of the Bible…to which it was answered ‘Yes’.

Some of the verses in question, I shall be quoting here, and others, for sake of space, I will merely list the reference for you to look to yourselves. In all, you will find the instructions given by the Bible…whether they be from within the New Testament or the Old. Yet they are all from the Bible…and quite obvious that Christians of today are not following by those instructions and guidelines. We do not do that in Islam. What is written for us in the Quran, we are to follow, regardless of what it is. There are always provisions and then explicit instructions as to how to implement what is given to us, or what is prohibited from us, and we look then to the Hadith, to find the exemplification of implementing the Quran in the life and practices of the prophet Mohammed himself. Surely, you will find always that there are individual Muslims who perhaps do not follow those instructions for one reason or another. The basic underlying reason would be the individual’s own weakness in faith, and their wrong supposition that there will be no retribution for disobeying those commandments. However, if you look to the Islamic society as a whole, you will find that if in some cases there is not individual adherance to such guidelines, then at least the community as a whole does recognize those instructions and guidelines, and at the very least makes an attempt to follow them, impressing and imploring upon the individuals to take to the guidelines and follow that which is directed for them. Quite different from Christian societies of today, who are not only being arrogant in their disregard for what is written for them in their own Bibles, yet even ignorant that such guidelines and instructions even exist! Or is it that the ‘Holy Book’ is to be taken that which appeals to the people, and to be left that which does not appeal to them, in the name of ‘modernization’ and ‘development’?

In reference to women’s actions and interactions in the church:


. As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
(1 Corinthians 14:33-35)

Now, where does this verse come in, in view of the recent developments and controversies arising within the churches today, which are allowing and permitting that women become ministers, various teachers, and missionaries, as well as even deacons and bishops, and other positions of authority within the church structure? This verse tells people that not only are women not supposed to be holding or given positions of authority or teaching within the church, but that they are not even to ask questions. They are to reserve their questions for the privacy of their homes, in the audience only of their husbands!! Is there any church today…which is adhering to this instruction? Or is it perhaps that this instruction is invalid since it came as a personal instruction from him who wrote it? This ‘book’ of the Bible is one of the letters written by Paul…to the Corinthians. He is assuming for himself a degree of prophethood, in instructing people to do as he is telling them to, imposing upon them that he is himself receiving divine instruction. The prophets themselves are clearly known, and were men of righteous stature, and chosen by God. Not those who claim to have the prophethood. It is not something you can claim upon your own, but something that one rises to upon being chosen by God.

In reference to clothing:

A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor a man wear women's clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this. (Deuteronomy 22:5)

Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together. Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear. (Deuteronomy 22: 11-12)

How many people today follow either of those directives? There may not be so many instances within the church atmosphere of men wearing women’s clothing as there are of women wearing men’s clothing…but there are still those individual cases. Admittedly, the cases of women wearing men’s clothing is more predominant. Still, it is something which is directed against. Also, about the wool-linen mix…who is actually adhering to that instructive? As well as the tassels?

In reference to men and women covering their heads, and the permissibility of the length of the hair for both men and women, see verses: (1 Corinthians 11:4-15)

You will find within these mentioned verses, instruction which most definitely instructs that women are to have their heads covered, particularly when in the church and in prayer. If they are not going to or willing to cover their heads, then they are to shave their heads. If they are not going to or willing to shave their heads, then they are to cover them. How many Christian women do this? How many Christians even REALIZE the existence of such a verse and such an instruction? Why is this not followed among Christians?

In reference to a mediator between men and God, the Bible tells us this:

For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, (1 Timothy 2:5)

For Muslims, there is no mediator, whether living or dead. There is direct communication between each and every individual worshipper and his/her Creator, God.
We are even instructed to pray directly to God, asking from Him, asking of Him, and promised of His response and answer:

‘When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me: that they may walk in the right way.’ S. 2, v. 186.


Some more verses from the Bible in reference to women’s expected quietness in the church, as well as instructions of her modesty in dress: (1Timothy 2:9-15)

In the above mentioned verses, there is also reference as to how a woman is saved. This makes mention that a women is ‘saved’ through childbirth. That is quite interesting. Is that to include also those non-christian women, who go through childbirth? What about the Christian women who for some reason or another never go through childbirth? Are they to be rejected salvation, just because of a ‘flaw’ of nature, or more importantly, the design and will of Almighty God…they never were able to conceive? Does that include the many women throughout the annals of time, who have remained virgins till their death? Does that include the many women throughout the annals of time who have remained barren, regardless of their many attempts at conceiving?

In Islam, we are taught that each and every individual, regardless of man or woman, is responsible for his or her own soul, upon his or her own acceptance or rejection of the signs presented to them, as well as of their own obedience to the instructions and directions from God given to them, as well as of their own actions and non-actions during this life. Islam does not rest the important aspect of eternal and final salvation upon a decree from God that one is to remain barren…but upon the person’s (women or men alike) own achievement to overcome the forces and temptations of evil, to abstain from that which is bad (yet tempting and attractive) and to follow that which is good, leading towards eternal and final bliss and happiness and comfort.


‘On no soul doth Allah place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns.’ S. 2, v.286.

In my many recent readings of the Bible, including it’s accompanying commentaries, I was reminded of my earlier days as a Christian, in a Christian family, living a most-generally-accepted Christian life among a most-generally Christian population. There was little contact with non-Christians, except for the few Jews that we knew and were acquainted with. Even for those Jews, we were quite friendly and even loving with them. This is one point I cannot understand…the utter hostility and unacceptance of Christians to Muslims, yet the total apathy and acceptance and even sense of brotherhood between Christians and Jews. In reviewing history as well as religion, you can easily see what the Jews themselves did to Jesus, and the claims and accusations that they made against him. In fact, it was the Jewish society itself which condemned him to the death and crucifixion that he was humanly condemned to. Even for those who remain Jews today, they do not recognize Jesus’ prophethood, his very existence in this world as what he came for…for their (the Jews’) own deliverance. While the Muslims, on the other hand, not only recognize Jesus’ prophethood and his existence and coming into this world as the Messiah, but he is held in quite high regard and respect, much as the other prophets and messengers. Yet there is this total scene of friction and misunderstanding between the Christians and Muslims, while a completely and utterly sense of true brotherhood between the Christians and Jews. Strange, and interesting.

Back to the previous train of thought: In my studies and researches here, I was strongly reminded of my earlier years as a Christian, amongst Christians. In reviewing the Bible itself, along with sometimes the commentaries, I was painfully and strongly reminded of those days as a Christian, when I would ask things, listen to sermons, lessons, and lectures, as well as attending Bible classes, or perhaps merely ‘simple’ and very private conversations with fellow students, youths, or even some of the adults in the church, including sometimes the minister himself, or any of his associates, or even my own parents or perhaps some of our group-leaders or counselors or teachers. Things were always QUITE confusing…to say the least. There was NEVER the element of sense, or of understanding. Whatever answers that I ever got, there was always a major question lurking behind, bothering my mind. And no questions that I ever asked got a merely simple and logical answer…no matter whom I asked, nor what reference I researched or studied in. All explanations were always quite complicated, and seeming literally turning around in circles, going back again and again upon itself, all the while not making ANY sense or logic. This is the feeling that I got again last night. A total sense of turning round and round in illogical circles, in an attempt to explain something which makes no sense in the first place.

In my recent researches back again into the Christian Bible, I am not searching for answers for myself, but rather merely pointing out to all the inefficiency of the Bible as a reference Book, guidance Book, and the dire and real possibility…no, probability…that it is not in actuality the Word of God, as is liked to be claimed by Christians, and even the Jews. Please look sincerely at the many discrepancies…too many, and too important, and too common-place to possibly be the word of God, even in translations. Not only that, the many ‘letters’ so obviously written by men…humans…people…common people, and not the prophets themselves. These ‘letters’ (which have since been turned into Books for the Bible…such as Corinthians, Galatians, even Revelations)…were written by men not even prophets themselves, yet they were writing instructions from themselves to the people. Who were these men…that they acclaimed of themselves the level and the right and the position of instructing people as in the way and format that the prophets lead and instruct the people?

I am sorry…but such letters…although they may actually exist within the boundaries of today’s Bible…yet they are obviously NOT the word of God…nor are they even the word of the prophets, but of normal men and women, much like you and me…instructing people who read and take this to be the word of God. That is a blaspheme. How can such things…such writings, letters, and human instructions and ‘inspirations’ be included in a Book which is acclaimed to be the Bible?

When I found Islam…although I was at first taken aback, and even a bit turned off by the many seemingly restrictions, yet upon reading more, and learning what Islam actually is, and what it entails, and more importantly, upon reading the Book of Islam…the Quran, and finding such ease, simplicity, logic, and total and consistent explanations of all things, it appealed to me as the Bible never did before. Even the Quran itself needed no interpretation or explanation such as was always required with the Bible. The verses were simple, self-explanatory, and so logical in their meaning. As well, there is an obvious discouragement at oppression within the Quran, unlike the Bible, whether that be a racial discrimination, or anything related to birth, including the totalitarian oppression of men over women. Women have been given their full rights in Islam, along with their full responsibilities. Nothing like in the Bible, where women are referred to as the originators of the sins, as well as their only chance at redemption is through childbirth. Such an illogical and unimaginable fate for believers of God, and followers of divine guidance. Yet, in Islam, women are not only endowed with full rights and inheritances, but they are loaded with full responsibilities as Muslims in their own rite, needing to attend to the religion and their duties to their Creator much as the men, and therefore responsible, through their acceptance or rejection, their obedience to God’s commands or their disobedience, responsible for the fates of their own souls.

Aahhhh…such true beauty and utter logic and simplicity!!! Such an appealing life, and such a natural approach to life!!!

I pray sincerely that all those searching and fumbling in the dark may be enlightened to see the way, to be enabled to see the light, to be able to differentiate between the darkness and the light, and to never again be fooled.

For those of you so dependent and reliant upon the Bible…read again and again…do you not see the confusion? Do you not see the contradictions? Do you not see the differences?
Read the Quran…perhaps you, too, shall be enlightened with simplicity, purity of message, and logic of reason, as well as a sense of truth. Read, and open your eyes, open your hearts.

This is not for me, not for anyone else here at this site. It is for you. You have had the opportunity, you have been forewarned, you have had the many chances. Do not be arrogant in turning away from it all, when it has been presented to you. Yes…there is no compulsion in religion, true as the Quran states. However, it also states that…there will be a day when there will be no religion accepted to God from man other than Islam. And…what is Islam, other than submission to God? Submission to His commands? Submission to His Will? It is simple, logical, appealing to man’s inner sense and search for the One God…not the trinity or any son-ship relation to God, nor any incarnation of God into human flesh…but a true and simple and pure obedience to and worship of one and ONLY one God.

May we all who are striving for that goal of pleasing God by worshipping Him and following ONLY His Directives find that final and eternal peace.

...Lulua.


  #2  
Old 27-08-2001, 19:37
JaLaaL JaLaaL is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: uh::
Posts: 145
JaLaaL is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to JaLaaL
RE: Addressing some Questions for Christians

Brother/Sister LuLua...SaLaam ALeikum.

Thx for your wonderfuLL contribution you made about the Christianity. It is reaLLy important job for the young generation of now to show the worLd that IsLam is the onLy right(Haq)way.

If this was happened 1400 years ago, for exampLe take the period when the musLims reagned over Spain, how wouLd the worLd Look Like now ? -If the musLims made their job weLL in the past then we didn't have to suffer now from the materiaListic West and the other kuffaar.

But we are (stiLL) not to Late for doing this job. TaLking about that the christianity is wrong in a musLim forum is good but doesnt't make much sense. It is better to say or write these things on christian/jew forums. If you have knowLedge about isLam and christianity than I have some good adresses for you were you can debate with them:

http://www.5solas.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=21
I have to warn you for this forum, some of the peopLe who visit that site are very isLamofobic !


http://theology.hypermart.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

I have tried to taLk with peopLe on those forums, but my engLish is not so very weLL. I hope that there are some brothers here who can do it better than me !


WassaLaam.







__________________
"Anna uried, wa enta turiyd,
wa Allahu jefa’al mejuriyd."
  #3  
Old 04-09-2001, 08:32
Lulua Lulua is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,709
Lulua is on a distinguished road
RE: Addressing some Questions for Christians

Assalaamu alaikum.

Thankyou, br. Jalaal for the links of discussion forums that you have provided. Perhaps I shall try them someday. InshaAllah.

Lulua.


  #4  
Old 08-09-2001, 11:59
luque (Guest)
 
Posts: n/a
RE: Addressing some Questions for Christians

Assalamualaikum.

I would suggest. GO FOR IT, SISTER.

I tell you there are also Christians or Jews who are so fanatic who cannot think rational about their religion. So as some of Moslems. "Fanatic I mean : not being able to be rational in believing whatever one believes".

How come for others people's religion, you can be rational but for your own, you cannot.

Ha.. Point to ponder.

Luque.

bye.


  #5  
Old 08-09-2001, 21:27
Lulua Lulua is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,709
Lulua is on a distinguished road
RE: Addressing some Questions for Christians

Assalaamu alaikum.

Perhaps I will do just that, br. Luque...GO FOR IT!!!

Anyways...whether I actually do or not...is not only really no business or concern of yours...it as well is the result neither of your pridings nor because of any encouragement from your side.

As for finding fault, and my viewpoint and understandings of things and the situation of the world...you will find, if you refer to my past postings on almost all topics...that in general I am rather unbiased...and admit to the faults of our ummah, as well as to my own faults.

This is to say...the faults that lie within the ummah itself...results of human mistake, and human misunderstanding. That is not mistake or incomprehension due to Islam itself...for in true Islam there is no mistake nor incomprehension. That is something which comes from human error.

Lulua.
  #6  
Old 09-09-2001, 13:27
luque (Guest)
 
Posts: n/a
RE: Addressing some Questions for Christians

Assalamualikum.

With the way that you believe and like somebody claimed congruen with 1.2 billion moslems, who don't bother about living on this earth where hereafter is the ultimate concern, I think there is no mistake of the Ummah. Since this is what they want.

The life today is very fair. The hardship face by the moslems is part of happiness because this is the way to go to heaven. If you or moslems do not face the hardship, they will be considered enjoying life where they are not suppose to.

All the moslems who enjoy life, they are gonna go to hell, like me. I choose to enjoy here and going to hell later, where you all choose to suffer now and going to heaven later. I don't see any mistake? Would you clarify the word mistake that you mean?

Luque.

p/s: Now it is much more interesting talking to you. I bet you are also smiling writing or reading what I wrote. Cool.
  #7  
Old 09-09-2001, 14:30
Lulua Lulua is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,709
Lulua is on a distinguished road
RE: Addressing some Questions for Christians

Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

Hmm...interesting, indeed.

Well, Luque...you have me wrong. Surely I am not smiling at this...neither on the inside nor on the outside. You have me quite wrong...and seem to think that I am vengeful, finding solace in the pain in others, or happiness at the demise of those who refuse to accept the many signs that Allah has set out for all of mankind, for all times. Rather the opposite, really. It distresses me much...but I am one to realize and know and accept that it is only Allah who guides whom He wills, and leaves to stray those whom He wills. There is nothing that I can do to change that, nor to influence of course Allah's will, nor to influence you nor anyone else if you do not have the inclination within you for that influence.

Far from smiling, really...neither at writing nor at reading.

The life...whether this life or the one yet to come, is nothing to joke about or to take lightly. And...if one must choose between either the pleasures of this life and enduring hell later, or facing some hardships of this life and resting eternally in heaven, then the second choice is surely more enticing. However, it is part of satan's trap and his vow to Allah...that he will make attractive the pleasure of this life, while making the attractions of the life of the hereafter seem very far away, if attainable at all.

Again...we have been created in this world for one reason, and one reason only...and that is to worship Allah. As for how to go about that, we are fortunate that Allah has set for us a system of guidelines by which to form our lives, in order that we may accomplish that seemingly difficult task. However, it is really not so difficult nor repulsive as it may seem to some.

This life that we are going thru right now...is nothing more than a mere passing and a test...by which if we pass it, and overcome all the difficulties it has to present, as well as it's temptations, then we shall inshaAllah attain eternal felicity. However, if we fall to the temptations, then we have much to answer for later. It all boils down, really, to a major system of checks and balances. There is much in the Quran to frighten us from the wrath of Allah...yet we cannot live our lives realistically in a case of fear. Therefore, the verses in the Quran which are directed to inciting fear into people are balanced out with other verses which appeal to a person's need for reassurance and comfort. And...if there was only verses of reassurance and comfort, then the people would surely become lazy and forgetful, as well as dependent upon that reassurance and comfort, not thinking of their responsibilities due to Allah as well as to the rest of creation, and therefore they would end up trespassing the boundaries, and not live up to those responsibilities, and would become negligent.

Checks and balances. Quite a wise system by which to guide creation.

As for nature...such as plants and animals and all the rest of nature(the wind, the rains, the planets, etc...as well as the very basic cells of our own creation)...all follow Allah's commands. They do what they were created for. The air moves as according to plan, the planets all revolve in the direction that they were commanded to do so. The trees and plants and grass blow and bend in accordance with the wind that blows them...not in opposite direction. The cells and nuclei reproduce, replacing those dead or damaged, and growing into something of larger and different volume and consistency. The circle of life in the wild proceeds as Allah has commanded...the weaker and smaller being eaten and consumed by the larger and stronger. And then eventually, those stronger animals which have intaken the weaker ones will eventually die and replenish the earth with nutrients, so that the grasses and vegetations can grow, to supply the weaker animals with their nourishments, in order that they may grow, to supply the larger and stronger animals with their eventual food source...and so on and so forth, the circle of life...nature...continues, as Allah has planned and commanded. It therefore is indication of how...even the creations that have no mind to choose and decide for themselves...of how they are obedient to Allah, following his commands.

Now we come to mankind...who has been endowed and blessed with a brain for understanding, comprehending, and finally choosing.

As for those who opt not to follow the commands and directives given them...their result is clear..it is in the Quran. The same can be said for those who choose to follow the commands and directives, regardless of the hardships or obstacles that may present themselves to them in the way. It is the final destination which is of more importance to those who choose to follow Allah's commands.

As for you, Luque...it is you who have admitted that you decide or choose not to follow such instructions...and therefore you are content with the pleasures of this short life, in opposition to what may lie in wait for you in the hereafter. You yourself have admitted to condemnation in Hell...not something which I or anyone else at this forum have accused you of, nor have prescribed upon you as a punishment. That is something which lies totally and solely in the decision of Allah.

And you assume that I would be smiling at this? You have seriously mistaken my character!!

That is most certainly your own decision...you are the only one that will have to live with that.

As you have so reminded us much...that logic proposes a system of checks and balances...a course of result due to the course of action taken. Well, it is the same with our lives. We have within our reaches the directives and guidance which will guide us to final bliss and happiness and peace. If we follow it, then we shall find that eternal happiness. But...if we choose not to follow it, then the result is also obvious...an eternity of pain and torture. And...in the end...none of us have anyone to blame but ourselves.

I pray and beseech Allah that I shall be saved from such a humiliating and painful end..and end without end. Allah guide us, for it is surely only You who guides.

Lulua.


  #8  
Old 09-09-2001, 16:05
Lulua Lulua is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,709
Lulua is on a distinguished road
RE: Addressing some Questions for Christians

Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

I have some more comments to make along this line of 'checks and balances'...something important which you touched upon Luque, which I did not reply to.

And that is your mention of your own choice, as well as many other people in this world (muslims and non-muslims alike) in choosing their desires of indulging in the pleasures of this world over abiding by the rules and regulations set for us in Allah's commandments, and therefore striving for pleasure and comfort in the hereafter.

Now...in abiding by the commandments of Allah, who ever said that there is no pleasure in that? There is truly much pleasure that one can find, even while abiding by the commandments and directives of Allah. Just because a person abides by directives and guidance, does not mean that there is no pleasure in it.

Suppose that all persons in this world were to merely live their lives according to their desires. My, my, what a total world of chaos and utter confusion it would be!! That is in part why such guidelines of instruction were given to us for following, in order that a sense of order and calm may be achieved in life between the various individuals.

Imagine all the murders there would be, (so much more than now)...the rapes, the burglaries, the cheatings, and all other atrocities committed man against man, all in the name of seeking pleasure and ignoring guidelines and instructions, with absolutely no fear of the consequences which must eventually be paid for such actions of atrocity.

That is why there is such a form of guidance as the Quran, not only to help man to achieve final peace and tranquility in the hereafter (by virtue of following the guidelines and therefore receiving due reward for having done so in this life)...but as well to help achieve some sense and structure of peace and tranquility in this life as well, contributing to a mutual sense of happiness and comfort in this life as well, which eventually contributes to a feeling of pleasure.

Checks and balances.

If you go against the guidelines and instructions, then there is a price to pay, which is punishment. And if you abide by the guidelines and instructions, then you recieve a price, or a reward. Simple, really...and quite logical, actually.

And, in the meantime, while abiding by such guidelines and instructions, there is quite a margin of possible pleasure...not all such hardships, as you seem to have painted it, Luque. And...the most pleasing thing of all, of course, is the reassurance all the time that one is following the guidelines and instructions...is that one will finally attain an unmeasurable amount of pleasure...much more that what anyone could possibly imagine in this life, in this world.

Lulua.
  #9  
Old 09-10-2001, 23:00
jcecil3 jcecil3 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 220
jcecil3 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to jcecil3 Send a message via AIM to jcecil3
RE: Addressing some Questions for Christians

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-10-01 AT 03:06 AM (GMT)[/font][p][font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 10-10-01 AT 03:01*AM (GMT)[/font]

Lulua,

Your opinions are so long, that it would take books to speak to every point. Let me just address the basic principles behind the issue of the role of women in the Christian churches.

"For through faith you are all children of God in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:26-28)

Most contemporary Christian Bible scholars believe that the historical context for the statements regarding silence of women in the Church were directed at communities where pagan priestesses had influence. The directive for silence was aimed at newly converted women who were still learning the basics of the faith, and who still had some pagan beliefs to unlearn.

If this were not the case, there would not be other passages of the New Testament that give directions to women for prophecying in the Church. Furthermore, there were women who witnessed the resurrected Christ, and preached that resurrection to others. Phoebe (a woman's name) was a deaconess, meaning she exercised leadership and was ordained! Even in the Old Testament, Miriam, who was Moses' sister, can be said to be the first music minister.

Now, the Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox HAVE held to rather conservative views regarding the modern role of women in the Church, based on the texts you quote. However, the arguments of contemporary Protestant sholars DO have merit based both on internal arguments from Scripture, and extra-biblical information regarding the communities to which the Scriptures were written.

Furthermore, there is historical eveidence throughout Christianity that women have played significant roles in the Church. For example, Saint Catherine of Sienna was an adviser to the Pope, and has been named a "Doctor of the Church" by the Catholic Church, meaning that her writings, while not inspired Scripture, can be considered a guide to orthodox belief. Catherine is only a single example of a long line of influential Christian women: Joan of Arc, Clare of Assisi, Perpetua and Felicity, Monica of Hippo, and so many others down through the ages....

When I read the Koran, it seems to me that Mohammed's view of women was actually pretty liberal and advanced in its historical context. But I would consider primitive by today's standards. I mean that as no attack on the prophet, for I am saying that I do believe he was ahaead of his time, but conditioned by his times.

Other than conservative dress and no mention of the joys of paradise for women, Mohammed was quite liberal by allowing women to initiate a divorce, or remarry after divorce. Jesus had an unusual respect for women as well within his historical context. Indeed, some scholars argue that his prohibition of divorce not only was meant to prevent adultery and lust, but to protect women from being abandoned by their husbands. I believe that Islam will find within the Koran, and within its own history, the impetus to change the role of women in modern society.

I am not a Muslim, but I do not believe that Allah intends polygamy for men only, male religious leaders only, women staying home from public worship, female circumcision, the denial of education to women, or the total covering of a woman's glorious body (praise be to God for the beauty of woman!).

I know that not all Muslims believe these things today. And, if you study the Koran its historical context, rather than reading it as God's final word, I think it becomes obvious that Mohammed would write more liberal views today than he did 1400 years ago. The world is changing -- the train has left the tracks -- there is no turning back. Women of the future will not allow themselves to be subordinated to the extent both Christians and Muslims have done in the so-called Middle Ages.

In the West, there has been general awakening to the fact that the sin of sexism began immediately AFTER Adam and Eve sinned. Thus, it was not the original intent of Allah-God that women's role in society be viewed as less valuable than man's. In the garden of Eden, man and woman were equal and as male and female they were the image of God!

Regarding women's clothing, the Bible is clear that the distinction between the sexes should be maintained. However, it misses the point to focus on whether women wear pants or not, or head coverings, or whatever. God knows what is beneath the clothing, and it is absurd to think God cares about a specific type of dress. What God cares about is respect for differences between the sexes, and modesty in chastity in both sexes.

Indeed, as a man, I would be a laughing stock if I wore women's pants, and women's clothing is not designed to fit a man's body, even if it looks similar. There will always be clothing designed particularly for women, and clothing designed particularly for men, and clothing that is similar for both. Though the Bible forbids true cross dressing, the Bible is not menat to provide a strict dress code. In Jesus' and Mohammed's day, men AND women both wore robes -- yet they knew the difference between men and women's clothing.

So, the point is that Christians have finally come to realize, after 2,000 years reflection on their Scripture and the continued guidence of the Holy Spirit, that the current political, economic, and educational inequity between men and women is not the intent of God. This inequality is the result of sin, and predates the comming of Christ in human history. The Pope has even gone so far as to write an apology for the sins of sexism committed by the Church.

We Christians are still working out how to preserve the unique dignity of the role of each sex, while simultaneously recognizing the equality of respect due to each sex. This is an issue that began to be worked out in the very texts you quoted, but the struggel to resolve it continues to this day.

Until there is a REAL equality in dignity and rights that simultaneously respects the differences between the sexes, this issue cannot be considered to be resolved. It will take quite some time to resolve this, and resolution may not be fully reached in our life-times.
__________________
Country::
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Q&A by Dr. Zakir Naik lubna Comparative Religion 0 03-07-2005 23:39
Questions On Iraq Lulua Current Affairs 0 24-09-2002 00:23
60 Questions for the Christians Lulua Comparative Religion 6 07-09-2002 04:54
Inadequately Answered Questions jcecil3 Comparative Religion 29 27-05-2002 23:18
Belief in God! Sadiq Comparative Religion 17 28-04-2002 16:48


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:52.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Evolution style ©EX - Evolution Design
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner.
The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2002 by Islamic Web-Community

Web site Engine's code is Copyright © 2002 by PHP-Nuke. All Rights Reserved.
PHP-Nuke is Free Software released under the GNU/GPL license.

:: Evolution style ©EX - Evolution Design :: phpib2 phpbb2 style by phpbb2.de :: PHP-Nuke theme by www.nukemods.com ::